So since I’ve been playing the Bard a bit recently, I figured I would go ahead and look in on all of the various suggestions/requests floating around. Particularly mine, since I love reading my own ideas. 🙂
+ Clarification (if currently active) or enhancement (to add the next level of benefit) on Song of Tonis/1035: 135 ranks should give an additional -1s of RT. (Progression is -1s for Song use, and -1s additional benefit at 30 and 75 [== 30 + 15 == 45 more] ranks. Next step of progression should be [30 + 15 + 15 == 60 more ranks == 75 + 60 ==] 135 ranks of EL:Air. http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Bards/Bard%20Magic,%20Spells,%20and%20Spellsongs/view/234
+ Re-vamp Unravel/1013 to remove the additional extra step of randomizing the mana result. There is already a random check (CS/TD warding result with d100), AND a limitation on how much drawn (based on #Songs known), AND a throughput limitation (based on MC:Mental). Why a random result, too? Last night, I saw two consecutive d100 results (on the same stone giant) give me a 209 final value; one pulled 8 mana [4 of which went to Unravel renewal], one pulled 16 mana [less 4 for renewal]. Both of these were LOWER results than the one immediately preceding them… which resulted in only NINE mana [less 4 for renewal]. http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Bards/Bard%20Magic,%20Spells,%20and%20Spellsongs/view/516
There you go! Sixteen (and a half, since I doubled up on the Unravel flares) ways to make Bards the true masters of Elanthia that we should be (at least, while I’m fired up to play my Bard).
Bump. (Not quite a year from the date of the compilation…)
(My prior ‘bump’s of the list were in October of last year, and again in May (in a different thread title) by reference.)
I am particularly exercised by/interested in results for: – Unravel getting runestaff flares (both for the cast, and the renewals) when NOT cast at a PC in your group (thereby allowing use in the Glad Games), since it is a single-target not-auto-success CS/TD based attack spell; – Unravel being REMOVED from the operations of the normal Renewal cycle, such that the Song ends if your Medley renews. It should NOT do this, since it has a completely stand-alone timer of its own (if you do not renew within 25-30 seconds, it will end regardless); and – Unravel having the random result for ‘amount of mana drained’ removed, since there is already a d100 result involved in the CS/TD check, plus built-in limitations for amount of mana possible [# of Songs know], and amount of mana moved [Mana Control ranks].
In addition, something that didn’t make it into that list: – Lullabye should have a possibility of runestaff flare, but the flare needs to occur during the cast (i.e. before the effects of the spell), so that the damage takes place and then the target falls asleep to our rhythmic crooning.
“I am particularly exercised by/interested in results for: – Unravel getting runestaff flares (both for the cast, and the renewals) when NOT cast at a PC in your group (thereby allowing use in the Glad Games), since it is a single-target not-auto-success CS/TD based attack spell; – Unravel being REMOVED from the operations of the normal Renewal cycle, such that the Song ends if your Medley renews. It should NOT do this, since it has a completely stand-alone timer of its own (if you do not renew within 25-30 seconds, it will end regardless); and – Unravel having the random result for ‘amount of mana drained’ removed, since there is already a d100 result involved in the CS/TD check, plus built-in limitations for amount of mana possible [# of Songs know], and amount of mana moved [Mana Control ranks].” — Me, in #626
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Song of Unravelling to your song… Your spellsong is ready. >You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a stone troll. CS: +255 – TD: +145 + CvA: +25 + d100: +31 == +166 Warding failed! You feel your song touch the magic surrounding the stone troll and begin to resonate, pulling at the threads of the troll’s control. The air about a stone troll stops shimmering.
Your sonic runestaff unleashes a blast of sonic energy at a stone troll! … 40 points of damage! Hard strike to right arm breaking tendons and bone! The stone troll is stunned!
With a loud snap, a blast of energy bursts from your sonic runestaff! … 50 points of damage! Blow removes the stone troll’s right hand neatly! The stone troll rumbles in pain as his heavy stone arm falls to the ground! Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Okay, the FIRST step definitely works, at least for the cast. 🙂 I will see if I can get a flare on the renews.
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I would still like to know if the second two bullet points are going to be/have been addressed. (And I would love to see confirmation that #1 part B is already done, of course.)
In addition to the laundry list occasioned by the ELR, I would like the GMs to re-visit the decision that Warden & Solli made with in the GS4 conversion, specifically regarding Song of Mirrors/1019 only providing an additional plus one rank of Dodge per two (+1/2) Songs.
I drew the direct comparison versus Mobility, which gains +1/1.
Yes, the starting mana is slightly different.
Yes, Mirrors affects the entire group.
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However, Mobility is other-castable. Cumulative durations. (Already mentioned the whole ‘higher benefit’ issue.)
And the total mana spent, over the duration (call it four hours), is, of course, just stupidly overwhelmingly on the side of the Ranger (at high level, that’s what, 2-3 casts?) versus the Bard (at high level, that’s still what, 12 renewals?).
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Both semi professions. Both expected to have Dodge. Serious inequity.
What is this I read? Nothing on the officials about this. The original was +75 DS and was in the 1035 slot wasn’t it? While I dislike the fact that 1019 is so inadequate when compared to 618 I would like to see some Standard Manuever Defense added to it first if not more dodge ranks. Some secondary ability rather than the just dodge would be my preference all in all. Absorb Attacks…something like Mirror Image from old 2nd edition Dungeon and Dragons.
To speak on the general state of things I tend to agree defensive songs really are underwhelming when compared to the other professions. 1003 is worse than 601 by any metric I can think of (it’s even worse than 103).
You’re absolutely right! I was reading too much into it, probably recalling something that had been put forward as a possible add, but never done.
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And, me personally, I’m still a huge fan of the suggestion that Sonic Equipment Songs NOT COUNT for MSP, because armor/weapon/shield == Basic Adventuring Need, Definitely. (BAND!)
Hell, if you do that as Shield/Armor/Weapon, you get SAW == BAND, or the other way around you get BANDSAW. <shrug>
Date: 08/22/2016 09:03 AM CDT
From: GS4-ESTILD
Subj: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
I’ve made a minor update to Sonic Shield (1009), such that you can now WEAR your shield for 60 (previous value was 15) seconds before it will dissipate.
GameMaster Estild
Date: 08/22/2016 09:29 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
Awesome change! I had discovered the “it vanishes so quickly!” issue a while ago, but was just working on training myself to be quicker about moving it about.
Date: 08/22/2016 09:58 AM CDT
From: TANDL
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
Definitely a nice little touch.
Date: 08/22/2016 10:04 AM CDT
From: THORNBROOK
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
Thanks!
Date: 08/22/2016 12:26 PM CDT
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
The vanishing of gear was the first reason I decided I did not want to use sonics…
So thank you!
The rest of the list is still there, mind you, so I’m still rocking my 6x Grobey shield. 🙂
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 08/22/2016 01:33 PM CDT
From: CMNABRIT
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
Here’s a fun fact about 1009… You can pass your sonic shield to others, and they can hold it seemingly indefinitely since renewing doesn’t cause the shield to dissipate, only manually stopping 1009 does. I can’t think of how this would be beneficial, but maybe if your hunting buddy forgot to pack a shield you can be johnnyonthespot.
Archales
P.S. I would love to see a low key update that allowed sonic shields to deflect or redirect magical attacks ;-0
Date: 08/22/2016 02:01 PM CDT
From: GS4-ESTILD
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
Archales
Here’s a fun fact about 1009… You can pass your sonic shield to others, and they can hold it seemingly indefinitely since renewing doesn’t cause the shield to dissipate, only manually stopping 1009 does. I can’t think of how this would be beneficial, but maybe if your hunting buddy forgot to pack a shield you can be johnnyonthespot.
That was a bug and has since been fixed.
GameMaster Estild
Date: 08/22/2016 02:15 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
“a low key [I saw what you did there] update that allowed sonic shields to deflect or redirect magical attacks” — Archales
Yes please!
.
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I would also like to see both Shield and Armor get the second flares from EL:Air ranks. (Honestly, giving them the base flare would be just way too powerful. But juicing them up with Lore seems reasonable.)
Hell, go ahead and do it as diminishing returns: – First Equipment Song gets Seed1; – Second Equipment Song gets Seed2; – Third Equipment Song gets Seed3; – Fourth Equipment Song gets Seed4. (Could potentially be four, if you use Dancing Weapon/1025.)
BARD WOULD CHOOSE which one(s) he wants to use, of course. You use a lance, or a battle-axe? Then you probably use [1] Weapon and [2] Dancing. Lots of ShieldBash mojo? [1] Weapon and [2] Shield (or even the reverse). Full-on capped Bard with MSP reduced? Whistle up all four!
Date: 08/22/2016 06:02 PM CDT
From: CMNABRIT
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
It was still working like that as of the time of my first response to this post.
Archales
Date: 08/22/2016 08:53 PM CDT
From: COSTELLOK
Subj: Re: Minor Sonic Shield (1009) Update
If we’re suggesting boosts to 1009…
It would be nifty if there were some way to use sonic shields in maneuver attacks against undead. Perhaps similar to sonic weapons, where they’re usable, but with a penalty relative to comparable blessed gear.
(One more observation on the inequity of Ranger Mobility versus Bard Mirrors: the theoretical max Renewal duration at cap [with no Enhancives] is an Erithian, 101 ranks of ML:Telepathy and LOGic & INFluence stats at 100. 11:47 medley Renewal cycle…
…18th level Ranger nearly learnt the spell, has base duration of twenty minutes (20:00). Cumulative. That he can cast at his buddies.
And no chance of the spell accidentally falling off if you happen to be stunned in combat at exactly the wrong time.
Yet another point for you GMs to consider. I’m just saying.)
Meanwhile!
How about adding a Lore component? – ML:Telepathy, you and your opponents are operating on the same brain wavelength, you’re convincing them you are not where you really are; – EL:Air, you are manipulating the air between you into those mirror-like sheets of mirage you see hovering over super-hot highways. + Proposed Bonus of Dodge Ranks == 2* (Seed5 of [ML:T ranks + EL:Air ranks]) (i.e. Sum your ranks in the two Lore skills. Seed5 to determine your level of bonus. 2x that == # of additional Dodge ranks.)
To compare: my 49th level Bard with 41 Songs, if he were a Ranger, would have 20 base + (41-18 == +23) == 43 total ranks of Dodge.
With Lore: 51 ranks of EL:Air + 26 ranks of ML:Telepath = 77 ranks; Seed5 == bonus step 8, 2x == +16 ranks added to base of 20 and +11 [know 41 Songs] == 47 total ranks of Dodge.
TRUE! I am winding up with more effective ranks of Dodge than the Ranger. (I am also spending for 77 ranks of Lore that he is not.)
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Just a possibility for all y’all GMs to think about.
First post of the day on this thread: Does anyone know of RageSong/1016 correctly triggers RuneStaff flares? (It’s a single-target spell by definition, so it should get them, with no problem.)
Can you please confirm that the keyword combination ‘renew <spell#/mnemonic>’ IS within the legal parameters of RuneStaff flares? (Again, I’m looking specifically at Unravel/1013, and Disruption/1030.) + Activated by verb, not ‘just happen’. Same like cast/evoke/incant. Check. + Mana cost, not ‘just happen’. Check. + CS/TD check, just like <all other professions’ attack spells>. Check. + 3s CastRT, just like any other spell. Check. – Complete suckage of RuneStaff flares not happening on Renewals. Check.
Just because it happens to be a different verb, and a lower mana cost, does not free it up from being a spell-cast.
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For that matter, StoneFist/514 should probably also have the opportunity to flare on its follow-up actions, because I believe they are also subject to a mana cost and castRT, though possibly not the CS/TD check.
>For that matter, StoneFist/514 should probably also have the opportunity to flare on its follow-up actions, because I believe they are also subject to a mana cost and castRT, though possibly not the CS/TD check.
Any action with Stonefist on a creature that is held requires a CS/TD check – PUSH/THROW/CLENCH/POUND. Using PUSH/WAVE/THROW/SLAP will always break the hold and the stone hand will vanish. WAVE/CLENCH/POUND (as long as you’re skilled enough to use the latter 2) will keep the hand around the target until you either kill the target or the duration of the hand ends. Regardless, you still won’t get flares from your runestaff using any follow up verb with Stonefist
Initial casts can trigger runestaff flares: You gesture at a lesser minotaur. The floor beneath you rumbles, then erupts in a shower of rubble that coalesces in to a slender hand enscribed with runes in mid-air. CS: +415 – TD: +290 + CvA: +8 + d100: +17 == +150 Warding failed! A lesser minotaur tries to avoid the stone hand, but it soon catches him with a loose grip that quickly tightens.
As you hit, your runestaff flares with bits of broken rubble!
… 20 points of damage! Brushing blow to right hand. The scintillating brown light surrounding the runestaff fades some. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Follow up actions do not, yet they all require CS/TD check and do cost mana. PUSH – 2 mana >push warrior You slowly move your hand in a pushing motion, and the stone hand holding a minotaur warrior moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +280 + CvA: +8 + d100: +70 == +213 Warding failed! The stone hand pushes a minotaur warrior violently, and he rolls helplessly to the floor. Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the floor and crumble into invisible dust. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
WAVE – 2 mana >wave mino You slowly move your hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding a lesser minotaur moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +270 + CvA: +8 + d100: +40 == +193 Warding failed! The stone hand waves a lesser minotaur around violently, leaving him looking dizzy and confused. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
THROW – 3 mana >throw mino You slowly move your hand in a throwing motion, and the stone hand holding a lesser minotaur moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +270 + CvA: +8 + d100: +12 == +165 Warding failed! The stone hand throws a lesser minotaur and he goes flying through the air, then hits the floor with a loud thud. 41 points of damage! … 20 points of damage! Light strike to abdomen. Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the floor and crumble into invisible dust. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
SLAP – 4 mana >slap warrior You slowly move your hand in a slapping motion, and the stone hand holding a minotaur warrior moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +280 + CvA: +8 + d100: +87 == +230 Warding failed! The stone hand lets a minotaur warrior go free for a moment, then quickly moves to slap him. 75 points of damage! … 20 points of damage! Grazing blow to the stomach. Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the floor and crumble into invisible dust. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
CLENCH – 6 mana >clench mino You slowly move your hand in a clenching motion, and the stone hand holding a lesser minotaur moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +270 + CvA: +8 + d100: +28 == +181 Warding failed! The stone hand closes its grasp around a lesser minotaur and squeezes. 71 points of damage! … 30 points of damage! Good blow to chest! The lesser minotaur is stunned! Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
POUND – 8 mana >pound mino You slowly move your hand in a pounding motion, and the stone hand holding a lesser minotaur moves in response… CS: +415 – TD: +270 + CvA: +8 + d100: +34 == +187 Warding failed! The stone hand closes its grasp around a lesser minotaur and squeezes. 97 points of damage! … 50 points of damage! Massive blow to chest collapses sternum! A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the lesser minotaur as he falls slack against the floor. A low rumbling noise sounds from within the slender stone hand enscribed with runes that holds a lesser minotaur’s broken corpse firmly in its grasp. It erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the floor and crumble into invisible dust. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
We pay more to start; we cannot cast at others; we have–at cap, with perfect stats and ML:Telepathy–barely over half the duration that a schlub who just made 18th level has when he learns Mobility; we (currently) get half the ongoing improvement benefit; and the mana-per-time comparison is just stupid.
I thought at the time that Warden and Solli were making a mistake; in light of the recent Maneuver changes–and getting whacked as many times in two days (by Earthen Fury) as in the preceding two levels (by Boil Earth)–I think it’s time to revisit just how much of a mistake that was.
Date: 12/28/2016 02:26 PM CST
From: NAAMIT
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
Thank you for re-suggesting this Robert. I wholly agree.
Date: 12/28/2016 02:35 PM CST
From: GILCHRISTR
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
I thought 1035 also helps against SMR v2 (because it grants dodge ranks).
And why arent we calling it SMR redux???
Date: 12/28/2016 02:38 PM CST
From: GS4-KONACON
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
> And why arent we calling it SMR redux???
I don’t know what to call it or how to refer to it!
SMRv2, new SMR, the SMRv2? It’s hard! 🙁
~ Konacon
Date: 12/28/2016 03:41 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
We have smurved. 🙂
.
Yes, I agree that Tonis/1035 adds to SMRv2 effects, since Konacon said it does.
However, my point remains about the inequity between the (lower level other-cast longer duration cumulative duration less mana for four hours) Ranger spell and the (loses in every one of those comparisons) Bard spell.
Even though I am keeper of all things archaic, it looks like I don’t have a copy saved of the actual disclosure announcement when the changes for BardSongs were released; I only have some of the back-and-forth dialog from when Solli (and sometimes Warden) was answering questions.
But I will point out that the initial version of the proposed change, did in fact call for 1 Song known to == +1 Dodge Rank benefit. Then it got changed, later. (And no, I do not consider the change from 0p/18m for Spell Research, to instead be only 0p/17m, to be an adequate trade-off.)
Date: 12/28/2016 05:34 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
Level 74 here, and Tonis is just barely becoming useful every once in a while because the mana load for bards is so high. Then you take three breaths, and it’s gone. I have NO clue at all how pure bard builds even work, maybe you just have to be capped to do that.
🙁
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 12/28/2016 05:40 PM CST
From: GILCHRISTR
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
“Level 74 here, and Tonis is just barely becoming useful every once in a while because the mana load for bards is so high.”
And this is why I recommend mana recovery enhancives for bards.
Date: 12/28/2016 07:03 PM CST
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
>>Level 74 here, and Tonis is just barely becoming useful every once in a while because the mana load for bards is so high. Then you take three breaths, and it’s gone. I have NO clue at all how pure bard builds even work, maybe you just have to be capped to do that.
my goodness … 74 already … wasn’t it only yesterday you got here?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Date: 12/28/2016 07:31 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
This pure does it by using mana batteries. Blue and crystal wands are very nice (14-48 mana per drain, currently), but they need to be on-hand to be used. Creatures, now, they’re a better bet. Sheruvian Monastery was a dream time being in there: nothing but mana on the hoof. (I would usually go into the hunting area at around 70% mana, after spelling up… I’d come out with about 130% mana, because I drained more mana than I used.) If you use wands, have a Wizard double your reserves by Duplicating them for you, first.
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Remember to use the Song of Power trick, so you get Node-level recovery while out in the field. Just stop it before you have to pay the higher renewal (and face potential damage/death from losing control of it). God bless ‘spell active’! 🙂
Because you’re running Song of Power… you don’t necessarily need mana recovery enhancives. Having a higher max means you get back more, too. I think both Max Mana and Harness Power enhancives probably run cheaper than mana recovery ones do.
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If you do find some good Recovery enhancives (like on a bastard sword, for example), you can pull it out in-hand and use ‘mana pulse’, with good skills. Then you just stow it away again once you’re done getting mana. Keeping it under your control, between mana pulse and spell active, means that you can always control having enough on-hand for a ‘shout rally’ if you get in trouble.
Date: 12/28/2016 07:40 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
>> my goodness … 74 already … wasn’t it only yesterday you got here?
Yes! And I’ve spent so much of that time slacking 🙂
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 12/28/2016 07:43 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
How much Mental Mana whateveryoucall it do you need to pull mana from wands or creatures? I just got to 24 or 25 or something.
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 12/28/2016 11:10 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
Everyone and their brother swears that 24 ranks/102 skill is enough.
My personal experience told me that I got better results when I went up to 30 ranks (for the increased mana recovery). And then higher.
I’m currently at 60 ranks (for the runestaff ranks, and oh look! Increased mana recovery! Now with free casts from ‘mana spellup’!) and bemoaning the fact that Unravel has a built-in randomized factor, above and beyond the d100 result of the CS/TD check.
Yes, for the record: I’m trying to have that extra random result looked into and, for preference, removed. We’ve already GOT a random result, it’s called the d100 roll.
Date: 12/29/2016 01:30 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
Well, I tried pulling mana from a wand last night.
13 mana for each cast of the song: Aquamarine wand… gave me 8 mana and dissolved
Gold wand … better, but Cast 1: 12 mana Cast 2: 32 mana Cast 3: 6 mana and it dissolved
So … I’ll try it again after cap, I guess.
It does work lovely to strip off my nice spells when I have to hunt in a spellburst area. But the magic item stuff … seems not worth the mana even 61 levels after I learned it. I’ve seen wizards leech mana, and I know that works out very well for them.
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 12/29/2016 03:56 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
1) It’s only 13 mana for the cast (starting the effect); with items, after that, you only pay four (4) for the Renewals.
2) Like I said, try and find a creature that doesn’t wear many spells. If you’re in the low-to-mid 40s, Sheruvian initiates & monks are awesome: a) no armor [so +25 CvA], b) no worn spells [so you get straight to the chewy mana center], and c) they have like 50-60 mana that you can harvest. Even with cast + 2 renews, that’s only 21 net cost. From 60 mana, that’s net +39 mana. If you’re getting crit-kills from a 2-mana VibChant, “suck just one dry” can last you a while.
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1) Don’t use spirit spells. (So, no oak wands.)
2) Don’t use alchemy wands. (Like the coral and so on.)
Alchemy info was posted as a “preview” in March of ’07. I hit 46th in ’08, fixskilled in July of 2012 (probably doing the shift away from 1HEdged+Shield, to runestaff ranks), and hit 47th in August of 2015. So all of the alchemy items were totally new to me.
When I got back to doing some serious Barding over the end of summer & fall, I tried picking up “one of each” wand at the pawnshop, and Unraveled them. They’re all crap.
Gold wands are “okay”, but not fantastic.
Crystal & blue are still best, I think, because even now on the Arcane list they’re still 9th & 10th level Elemental spells, so they’re easy for you to work on. (Before the arcane list, when the wands were considered to be in the high 10s/mid-20s for spell level, they were FANTASTIC for Unravel. Less so now.)
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Basically, creatures are probably your best bet. Find “all creatures that Sorcerers like for Dark Catalyst”, and start with them. Probably a good chewy mana center.
Date: 12/29/2016 05:53 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
>> It’s only 13 mana for the cast (starting the effect); with items, after that, you only pay four (4) for the Renewals.
This confuses me.
It doesn’t act like a songspell that renews. And what is the good of having it pull more mana every 8.whatever minutes?
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Date: 12/29/2016 06:13 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: In light of SMRv2…
“It doesn’t act like a songspell that renews. And what is the good of having it pull more mana every 8.whatever minutes?” — Luxelle
Stop.
The previous post (#751) was talking about Unravel.
This line above (post #754) sounds like you’re talking about PowerSong.
Two totally different animals.
Unravel (assuming you’re working on an item, like a wand)
– 13 mana to start it. – Lasts ~16 seconds… and the first 3s are your CastRT. – If, in the course of that roughly 16 seconds, you ‘renew unravel’, you pay only four (4) mana. – The mana gained from Unravel effect happens first, before the mana is paid for Unravel cost.
This means that if you take out a crystal wand, “prep unravel”, “cast at my wand”, and get 12 mana, when you then pay 13 mana, if you started even with only one mana then you do NOT blow your nerves. Starting with one, getting 12 from the item and then paying 13, you wind up at 0. Then when you renew, and pull out 26, when you pay 4, you end at 22. [PLEASE NOTE THAT I MADE ALL THESE RESULT NUMBERS UP OUT OF THIN AIR.]
– When you hit ‘renew unravel’, that ~16s clock resets. – If your whole-medley renewal hits, at any point during an Unravel, then your Unravel stops. Right then.
And yes, I’m lobbying to get that changed, too. There’s already crap-tons of limits on Unravel (like a crap 16s duration), and having one more arbitrary one is no help. Fortitude and Kai’s benefits can run out past the renewal, let this one, too.
PowerSong
– 18 mana to start. – Kicks your field recovery up to Node, and gives your Node recovery +10. – Means that if you then, say for example, pull out the nice bastard sword you found in a box with a +9 mana recovery Enhancive, means that you’re standing OUT IN THE FIELD getting back NINE MORE MANA than you do sitting around in town on a Node while absorbing. – THEN you hit the ‘mana pulse’ command… and pack up the silly bastard sword that you don’t need, because You Am Spellcaster. – Can kill you, as one of several possible random effects, if it is still running when your medley renewal happens. – ONLY does you any good, if a mana pulse happens. Since those happen in the “two to two-and-a-half minutes apart” range, if your renewal is less than 4-5 minutes, you really aren’t going to get all that much benefit out of it. [And pre-GS4 conversion, when the MAXIMUM medley duration was six (6) minutes… this song probably sucked. I never used it, but I only made it to mid-20s before the conversion.] – Is fantastic if you can control ‘mana pulse’. For example, when I see a NON-mana pulse (i.e. “experience only”) happen… I’ve got 80 seconds in the bank. (I now have 60 MC:Mental ranks, and 40(halved-equals-20) ranks of MC:Elemental. So I can push the mana out nearly a minute and a half before the actual mana pulse. So as soon as I see “just experience” hit, I can grab my Mana Recovery enhancive, say ‘mana pulse’, put away the Enhancive, and STOP POWERSONG (taking 15 mana out of my medley renewal cost, as well as potential MSP removal) and DODGE the “oh crap it can kill me” effect. – But that’s only in the last 90 seconds or so of my medley. During the FIRST seven and a half minutes, I’ve soaked up three (3) actual mana pulses already. (See also above note: “as though I were on an EarthNode.”) – And then, with my now-headful of mana, I can if I choose ‘renew all’ and ‘incant powersong’ to be right back to where I was a moment ago. Except probably ahead of the game on mana. – If I am not ahead on mana… see also previous comment about “get my crystal wand”….
