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Fusion Changes coming after Ebon Gate

Fusion will change, but not until after Ebon Gate. I can’t see any way to try to summarize:

http://bit.ly/2dCH87d

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Fusion

Date: 10/06/2016 02:40 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: The State of Fusion
At long last, I have information to share with you.

Fusion will be separated into “old style” and “new style.”

Old-style Fusion

Currently “old-style” has a chance to lose potency if pried too often, and will shatter when the bonus becomes 0. Moving forward, old-style orbs, when damaged, will become new-style orbs. This will result in the removal of the shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs). Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried.

New-style Fusion

New-style fusion will never degrade their potency when pried from fusion, but will degrade at a rate of 4% a month (real time) to a maximum degradation of 50%. For example, +10 would lose 0.4 bonus points per month (becoming effective only when a full -1 value is reached, so only after 3 months in the case of the +10 item would any degradation of the bonus actually occur). It would take 13 months to reach max degradation in most cases. Values of 1 would round down to 0.

New-style fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.

Prying new-style orbs will have a chance to damage the orb, similar to old-style. When damaged it will uncap the max degradation (i.e. can degrade to zero in all cases). Further damage would increase degradation rate by 1% per month per damage cycle.

Fusion Extraction Cost

Fusion extraction costs will be changing so that more potent (higher bonus) orb creation scales upward.

Increasing Stamina Regen costs that are over +10 by 5% per point above (so +15 would be 25% more, +25 would be 75% more). Mana Regen by 3% per point over +10. Spirit Regen by +10%, +25%, +50% per point. Max spirit by the same. No changes to max mana/health/stamina.

Stat Bonuses over +5 would be +10% per point and Base Stats over 10 would be +5% per point. Skill Ranks/Bonuses would also be +5% per point over +10.

If an enhancive property is extracted from an item with a negative enhancive effect also on it (in the event of a +10 Strength item that also gives you -5 Dex, for instance), then the item is subject to a (further) 2x multiplier.

Items can now be marked so that they cannot be used with the fusion system moving forward.

Fusion Recharging – Both Styles

Fusion items will cost 125% the value in BPs to recharge, or 150% in silvers (during that time of the year).


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 02:41 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
The only changes effective for Ebon Gate 2016 are extraction cost and the increased recharging cost. We will have some ways to mitigate the extraction cost for this year that I’ll announce in the EG topic.

New-style orbs will not be created at this time. Old-style orbs can still shatter for the time being.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 03:18 PM CDT
From: CRAZLI
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Are these changes going to allow for more merchant work to be done on fusion items than before?


Date: 10/06/2016 03:37 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>>Are these changes going to allow for more merchant work to be done on fusion items than before?

The changes allow us to do more with the system going forward. Currently, those with the time and resources can gather up capped bonuses of preferred stats and skills across multiple sets of gear. The system has the ability to add multiple slots, but due to the minimal upkeep once the orbs are maintained, it puts us in the position to rarely offer more than 2-slot fusion arms.

So the answer to your question is that is our hope. We would like fusion to have the ability to obtain more flavor.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 03:37 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>This is even more horrible than I imagined. I think this is unnecessary and dumb. Why are you doing this? Balance? LOL

+1. Way to retroactively nerf gear people had spent years and tens of millions of silvers on. Adding even more tedious upkeep and recharge costs in addition because you did not balance the item distribution properly in the first place is exactly the problem with the direction of the game and pay events.


Date: 10/06/2016 03:40 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>The changes allow us to do more with the system going forward. Currently, those with the time and resources can gather up capped bonuses of preferred stats and skills across multiple sets of gear. The system has the ability to add multiple slots, but due to the minimal upkeep once the orbs are maintained, it puts us in the position to rarely offer more than 2-slot fusion arms.

I think it’s far more likely that people will stop wasting money and silvers on upgrades when you retroactively nerf existing items like this without regard to the time and investment people have made. Again, so that people who are unwilling to put in the resources to achieve the goal can have the same. If this is the direction the game is going, it’s time to just dump everything.


Date: 10/06/2016 03:42 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Actually, the primary problem is that the gear never leaves, and so is available to get pimped out with the next level of power five years from now…

But that’s a Breakage discussion, so not really relevant in a Fusion topic. 🙂


Date: 10/06/2016 03:46 PM CDT
From: GILCHRISTR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

“New-style fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.”

Please, please, please tell me this will be an unattended merchant option (like the fusion shaman), not a live service (like GALD).


Date: 10/06/2016 03:52 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Nothing will happen to old-style orbs if they are never pried from gear, which currently is the case for most people who utilize capped bonuses. These people will see no change in the system other than an increased cost to recharging.

Changes to orbs and the orbing creation isn’t happening at this time, so anyone can commit their orbs to a home and be done with it prior to this being officially released.

>>Please, please, please tell me this will be an unattended merchant option (like the fusion shaman), not a live service (like GALD).

It’s possible.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 03:53 PM CDT
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
If you have an existing set of orbed fusion gear, the only real effective change is the recharge cost increase (which is there to help keep fusion gear from being better than a vanilla enhancive item in almost every way).

Otherwise, existing old-style orbs will remain the same and your existing fusion gear will remain the same. It wasn’t mentioned in the above post, but we will have a merchant service available to safely remove your old style orbs with no chance to damage them, also to minimize the danger to old-style orbs.

There are some cost increases, but otherwise your existing orbs and fusion gear are not particularly retroactively nerfed — you can maintain their current functionality indefinitely, if you are careful.

Coase


Date: 10/06/2016 03:57 PM CDT
From: ROBLAR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Is the chance for an old orb to become new fusion always 5%? Or only if not pried too quickly from insertion?

I mean, is there zero threat if the orb has been there a few days and is now “loose in its depression”?


Date: 10/06/2016 04:06 PM CDT
From: UBERWENCH
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>Changes to orbs and the orbing creation isn’t happening at this time, so anyone can commit their orbs to a home and be done with it prior to this being officially released.

Appreciate the heads-up so I can decide what to do with my armor. As it’s my first fusion item, I’ve been waiting to see what the changes would bring. Now I have some time to decide how I want to handle it and what I want to spend on upgrades.

>you can maintain their current functionality indefinitely, if you are careful.

Very cool! I’m glad careful thought was given to preserving the value of most people’s current fusion gear and orbs while looking for ways to balance future fusion options for Janie-come-latelies like me.

— Lauren, Lylia’s player


Date: 10/06/2016 04:16 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>Nothing will happen to old-style orbs if they are never pried from gear, which currently is the case for most people who utilize capped bonuses. These people will see no change in the system other than an increased cost to recharging.

Not everyone has capped bonuses, and this makes upgrading orbs when increasing in level impossible.

>There are some cost increases, but otherwise your existing orbs and fusion gear are not particularly retroactively nerfed — you can maintain their current functionality indefinitely, if you are careful.

People remove orbs for other purposes such as enchanting or ensorcelling gear, which will no longer be possible after this. So yes, the gear is most definitely retroactively nerfed if existing orbs can become degraded to new-style, which is what we were told before would not happen. This destroys people’s trust in the direction of the game and makes it not worthwhile to spend any more silvers or money investing in any gear upgrades.

It sounds like the people who are being accommodated are the 1% with capped bonuses that won’t be moving orbs and the people who had not yet bought into the system, while the middle class, your average long-term customers, are the ones who suffer the most under this “update”.


Date: 10/06/2016 04:18 PM CDT
From: KAYB8
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I want to reiterate the question about the 5% chance of harm. Is this only on new 2.0 orbs which we’re not making at eg? If my current 1.0 orb is “come loose in it’s slot” or whatever, am I safe to remove it or subject to the 5%?


Date: 10/06/2016 04:23 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Nothing has changed to old-style orbs at all at this point. We will announce it in advance.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 04:23 PM CDT
From: KAYB8
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Also, I’d rather see future fusion armaments taken down to 1 slot for a long time with no chance of 2, let alone 3 slot than see these changes. But it sounds like that ship has sailed. I’m fine with 3 slot gear being rare, if all this is so more people can have 3 slot gear.


Date: 10/06/2016 04:39 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>Also, I’d rather see future fusion armaments taken down to 1 slot for a long time with no chance of 2, let alone 3 slot than see these changes.
>I’m fine with 3 slot gear being rare, if all this is so more people can have 3 slot gear.

I agree. This is why it’s important to balance the distribution of high-end fodder items upfront (Duskruin in previous years) rather than punishing the people who had already bought into the system at a later date. Nerfing existing gear and changing the functionality of existing old-style orb removal was never the solution that is going to be palatable to customers who had invested their time and silvers in acquiring the gear.

The barrier to entry for latecomers has already been lowered significantly in recent years with both the cost of enchanted fusion gear and cost of fusion orbs in freefall after many people had maxed out sets. All this is going to do is worsen the effect, for everyone.

It’s no different from implementing breakage, which was said would not be done. In fact, I believe Wyrom posted only days ago that “item attrition and upkeep” and “adding more tedium to the game” is the wrong direction in today’s GemStone, which is why this is even more unfathomable.

We try to trust staff, but then this perfectly illustrates why that trust is degrading by the day. If you’re wrecking fusion on an even grander scale than proposed last year, after the negative feedback, what else is going to be wrecked next? People aren’t being doom and gloom but because this appears to be the reality of the game today.


Date: 10/06/2016 04:50 PM CDT
From: CHULAK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>New-style fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.

How often should we expect to see this service offered and will it be for an unlimited # of people to use or be limited to a rather small number?

Speaking in Faendryl, Jahosk says, “You will now be known as Blade Durakar, the Palestra.”


Date: 10/06/2016 05:21 PM CDT
From: SHEN1
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

Well as one of the PC’s that scoured the lands to put together a ranged set, blade set, and was working on a set for working on casting 620.

You think we do not pay enough in BP’s to keep things charged? Seriously? I cannot even put together words at how funny that is.

Aurach

Demon slaying does not come cheap little blades, it cost BP’s lots and lots of BP’s.


Date: 10/06/2016 05:31 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
By the way, fusion became unbalanced not because of people with existing gear, but Duskruin flooding the market with massive amounts of high-end orb fodder without thought of the consequences. Also, the SimuCoin store potions to remove the requirement for hunting based upkeep of enhancives via bounty points resulted in very low costs to maintain said gear.

So basically, to support the cash grab, people who have bought into the system are punished, which is deeply flawed, results in no customer satisfaction, and increases fun for no one. Simu continues to want to have its cake and eat it without realizing that its actions and continuing nerfs are literally driving away existing customers, and potential new ones, by the day.

In a graphical MMORPG, there are pretty graphics to provide visual entertainment during increasing levels of grindiness or tedium. I cannot see how it is “fun” to watch endlessly screen scrolling text via a script. People do this in GS not because it is “fun”, but because they want the end prize/goal. Furthering the direction of the game to promote script gaming/grinding is detrimental to the entire game, promotes no interaction, and literally drives away players who have no desire to script everything. This is what I mean by destroying the magic of GS and what makes it unique in an attempt to simply become an overpriced version of every cash grab product on the market.

All of this nerfing especially makes zero sense in a game that is already the slowest in terms of progression, where it can take a non-scripting player years or a decade to cap a character and 5-10 years to max out gear via lottery based service chances. Just to have it destroyed for giggles so that newbie X can be entitled to the same privilege for zero investment of time, silvers, or money.

If I told this to anyone else, they’d laugh at us for continuing to play this game. And then Simu wonders why it’s impossible to recommend the game to anyone or attract real new players.

Tl, dr: Excessive tedium and thoughtless nerfing in the slowest game for progression on the market does not entice people to want to play longer. It simply wastes the time of everyone who had played to date and makes people think it’s no longer worth bothering with.


Date: 10/06/2016 05:48 PM CDT
From: GILCHRISTR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

“I mean, is there zero threat if the orb has been there a few days and is now “loose in its depression”?”

Great question. It used to be zero threat if it was loose in its depression, are we keeping that feature?

Also 5% chance of damaging the orb sounds like it could be an increase to me. I did a post on the PC a year ago or so, where I attempted to intentionally damage an orb and it took a while…


Date: 10/06/2016 05:50 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>Moving forward, old-style orbs, when damaged, will become new-style orbs. This will result in the removal of the shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs). Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried.

This sounds explicitly clear to me.


Date: 10/06/2016 06:14 PM CDT
From: GAROFALOA
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Let’s not mince words here the people who seem to be really up in arms about this are the ones that seem to merchandise these items for 100 million coins or above… Kind of makes one think doesn’t it? This might affect the resale value eh? The auctions I have seen on other forums and the prices I have seen just for the orbs not even the weapons are the armor

Mind you I have nothing against the people who worked with the system as it was flawed as it was and I’m not entirely unsympathetic to the boys and girls who spent countless hours waiting on line to be spun to get work done on their gear the countless hours and days and weeks spent enchanting

For my part? Never really cared for Fusion didn’t like it at all from day one part of it because I knew eventually one day something like this would happen and everybody would be up in arms I wasn’t exactly vocal about things hell I didn’t even post on these boards back then.. just seems like there was a lot of inequity in the whole damn thing… Oh well this too shall pass.


Date: 10/06/2016 06:17 PM CDT
From: KARDIOS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
<< Old-style Fusion

<< Currently “old-style” has a chance to lose potency if pried too often, and will shatter when the bonus becomes 0. Moving forward, old-style orbs, when damaged, will become new-style orbs. This will result in the removal of the shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs). Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried. >>

Will the 5% damage chance for old-style orbs apply even when the orbs have become loose in their sockets?


Date: 10/06/2016 06:22 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>the people who seem to be really up in arms about this are the ones that seem to merchandise these items for 100 million coins or above

False.

>This might affect the resale value eh?

This has nothing to do with resale value. This does, however, waste the time and effort of people who had been working towards a goal but whose gear is not yet complete.

>Oh well this too shall pass

Lesson learned, no need to spend any more on gear upgrades or pay event extras as this is the regard that Simu as a company has for its customers, wanting to have its cake and eat it too despite progression being exponentially slower than any other game on the market.

It’s like every time a minor adjustment is needed to a system, the nerf hammer is taken out instead and whack a mole is played on every level until it’s demolished beyond all recognition.


Date: 10/06/2016 06:26 PM CDT
From: GAROFALOA
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

….continued from previous post…

Honestly even though I don’t exactly have a use for Fusion items presently if it makes it a bit more easy for the common man to get these things I’m all for it. This is a case where I think our Collective greed in certain cases shot Us in the foot…. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it


Date: 10/06/2016 06:33 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
This is a case where a sense of entitlement to privilege and luxury goods leads to redistribution of wealth from those who have paid into the system to those who have spent nothing, which makes customers think that spending is a waste of their time and money.


Date: 10/06/2016 06:41 PM CDT
From: GAROFALOA
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Honestly the sentiments you expressed in the reply to my post where the exact reason why I never got on board with this whole Fusion concept… And I beg forgiveness for not expressing an appropriate amount of sympathy to the plights of the upper middle class. If you want to talk about cash grabs take a look at the merchant section of the unofficial forums… And look at the vast amounts of money that people were looking for for these stupid orbs.

Sorry guys I’m not going to make new friends with this and I’m probably going to lose some old ones but I have to be that guy in this

-Hapenlok


Date: 10/06/2016 06:49 PM CDT
From: SHEN1
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

Ever occur to you Hap, that some of us found the majority of our enhances, Made the orbs, waited and did a spire or two. Built a nice set and can barely keep the charged as it is, with the odd costs to recharge on many of them

Ever occur to you some of us are not buying and selling for 100’s of millions (which your utterly exaggerating on orb costs in my opinion)

You did not bother with them great. ‘Does not effect you’

It effects some of us rather sharply.

Aurach


Date: 10/06/2016 07:05 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
We will go over all the details once the change is ready for fusion orbs. Currently, nothing is planned to change with orbing other than extraction costs and recharging fusion gear.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 07:18 PM CDT
From: KHARIZ555
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Right now I am super stoked that I have completely ignored fusion gear.


Date: 10/06/2016 07:25 PM CDT
From: PEREGRINEFALCON
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>> Right now I am super stoked that I have completely ignored fusion gear.

Just wait until you see the announcement about fusion restoration potions available in the Simucoin store! Each potion recovers a month’s worth of wear.

— Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!


Date: 10/06/2016 07:30 PM CDT
From: KAYB8
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
It sounds like as long as we don’t ever damage a 1.0 orb, we continue on as before. No 5% risk. The 5% risk only comes into play with 2.0 orbs. Is this correct?


Date: 10/06/2016 07:32 PM CDT
From: PEREGRINEFALCON
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
If I read it correctly, your cost to recharge will still increase but you won’t have any degradation issues.

— Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!


Date: 10/06/2016 07:36 PM CDT
From: CHULAK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>We will go over all the details once the change is ready for fusion orbs. Currently, nothing is planned to change with orbing other than extraction costs and recharging fusion gear.

The information regarding how the process will work and the availability of merchants to fix our degrading orbs is of import to know whether or not I should continue to invest in the fusion system.

Speaking in Faendryl, Jahosk says, “You will now be known as Blade Durakar, the Palestra.”


Date: 10/06/2016 07:57 PM CDT
From: TARAKAN
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
How are you supposed to know a grandfathered orb from a nerfed one? I hope they are obviously different without the need for a bard. Also, if we have grandfathered orbs in a locker that are not set in fusion gear yet, will they remain unconverted?

Tarakan


Date: 10/06/2016 08:04 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
On our side, they will be totally different scripts. On your side, we’ll add some sort of way to do that. That’s easy.

The current plan is when PRIED you run the risk of them being damaged, which is 5%. So as it stands, an old-style sitting in orb form in a locker is safe and sound.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 10/06/2016 08:09 PM CDT
From: SHEN1
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

My hatchet is my only hunting weapon with 2 fusion slots. I have three daggers, with 2 being summon/bless lore and one wis/summoning. For spelling up, and using to cast fury. 85680 bps to charge all 4.

+25% 21240 BP

That is about 20 more guild tasks a month to keep the charged.

People tell me 25% is no big deal. That is not a lot.

Unless you are the one needing to do 20 more guild tasks, to charge them.

Aurach


Date: 10/06/2016 08:10 PM CDT
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>The current plan is when PRIED you run the risk of them being damaged, which is 5%.

This is a poor plan. The cost is already built in with having to empty charges and recharge again if one chooses to replace orbs too frequently.

If the SimuCoin potions are the issue, then I suggest making it so you have to buy a new potion for the item if the properties change instead of punishing everyone collectively to close a loophole.

Existing old-style orbs should remain unchanged with no change from the current system, as that was what we were told last year when these proposed changes were announced.

Regardless, I don’t know why you’d post a couple days ago that “item attrition and upkeep” and “adding more tedium to the game” are the wrong direction, then turn around and announce exactly that. Please help us to understand.


Date: 10/06/2016 08:25 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Outside outliers, this really isn’t a lot of upkeep to the average player. People using 10+ fusion enhancives are not average players.

>>Regardless, I don’t know why you’d post a couple days ago that “item attrition and upkeep” and “adding more tedium to the game” are the wrong direction, then turn around and announce exactly that. Please help us to understand.

Fusion updates have been on the table since 2014. They were postponed for over a year. The purpose of me getting this information out there is so you can make an educated decision on using fusion, which is tied up with Ebon Gate. But as I said in that same post, I am a fan of item attrition. Though we are removing the item attrition aspect (where people actually lose fusion orbs). This change only has an effect on fusion, not all enhancives, which is also a misunderstanding between a few emails I received. This upkeep is to a specific subset of gear. Not all gear.


Wyrom, PM

 

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