One of the most love-it-or-hate-it proposals for post-cap development is multiclassing; some suggest gaining the full abilities of another profession while others suggest offering a limited subset of abilities.
[…] additional and multi-class levels […] would affect your training limits but not level dependent systems like maneuvers and exp gaining. The positives of this change are legion. It would allow people to develop new and unique classes that mix known abilities into new and amazing builds. In essence we would be gaining a factorial increase in professions. Like having a minor in college, it will diversify the population into amazing new worlds.
With post-cap development I would like to see some kind of multi-classing. Ideally spell-casting professions with access to two spheres of magic should have some flex in choosing which spell lists to learn. (e.g. Sorcerers should be able to learn Major Elemental spells in some way at higher cost, Empaths and maybe Bards should be able to natively access Minor Mental in some way.) With trade-offs. One Sorcerer option might involve not being able to access 425 but gaining access to spirit slayer.
This might take the form of composite lists you learn instead of the single spell lists we have now. Historically our spell lists themselves were composites across multiple Rolemaster spell lists, we just don’t get to choose other possible combinations. In the source book form pure (single-realm) casters would have cheap training in that realm, but expensive outside it, while a hybrid (two-realm) caster would have more flex but higher training costs than pures for Major lists and especially for the higher level spells.
Bottom line: You do not get “more spells” (outside of any post-cap dev / multi-classing) but you pay more for the flex of pricier spell list builds.
I’m a big big fan of the Dual Class idea. There are many players who play their main, and are just not interested in switching characters, they have too much time and emotion invested in it. For them, it would give years of more goals to achieve for that beloved character. […]
“Just start another character in a different class” […] is not an option for some players, it just doesn’t appeal to them no matter what anyone else might think about it. […] there are as many different ways of enjoying this game as there are players, no one player’s way is more valid than any others.
Some possible mechanical suggestions for how this could work include:
I think an interesting idea would be a type of multi-classing… it could work like at 2x cap, you can trade 1x caps amount of experience to pick a second profession – TP costs would be averaged between the two, max ranks would be the higher of the two per skill, with access to only primary spell list of said class (if exists) and of course.. guild skills would be allowed… could be neato/fun.
[in vein of PCP, gaining 1 point per milion exp]
Extreme Spell Research (cost, 10 points), learn any spell under level 19 from another non-professional circle you don’t otherwise have access to.
How about an optional buyin to a system that forces you to give up something for perks, akin to something like combat maneuvers meets Adventurer’s Guild where a character can spend (remove) 1 million xp from their character to gain a Post Cap Perk Point (PCPP)?
The PCPPs are spent like the combat maneuver system to gain access to other class’ skill sets in the form of guild skills, combat/shield maneuvers, and spell knowledge. Throw appropriate price tags on the skill sets such that the character chasing a 215 SK would need to spend (remove) something like 30 million post cap experience from their character to gain access.
It seems, to me, that type of system would be both highly-rewarding and incentivizing while still not allowing characters to explode with power-overwhelming since they’d be trading in experience they could otherwise spend in the skill mangler. AND Dev wouldn’t need to reinvent the wheel with a whole gob of new-fangled skills, tho new skills and abilities unique to PCPPs would still be implementable.
What about extra armor points, extra shield points, extra CMPs along with the ability to train in armor skills, shield skills, and CMs outside of what is normally allowed by your profession? Heck, what if we even suddenly gained access to certain ‘critter only’ maneuvers? Giant stomps, Minotaur gores, Gremlock garrotes, Ithzir fades, Illoke fists, etc etc etc?
Maybe we have to wander the Veldt until we come across the creature that has the move we want to copy and wander off to group with it for a few encounters?
I like the idea of learning other major spell lists (NOT profession spell lists) such as the 500’s and 200’s (and major mental when it eventually comes out) for 5x normal cost. This would go for all classes, although it would obviously cost a warrior a whole lot to do so at 5x normal cost.
The system I am envisioning[…] New levels are gained only at huge exp milestones. I am thinking in terms of each multiple of the cap gives you +1 level to spend […] in your same profession or in any other profession (but you can only pick one to add to). You would gain only the skills that profession would get at their first (second and so on) levels.
This system would let someone expand slightly into a new profession but it would always be insanely below their main profession. Even at 20,000,000 exp, your new hybrid warlock wizard/sorcerer would be limited to casting 701 and 702 with a limited but workable CS (lots of out of sphere spells and levels but not sorc ranks).
This makes your primary profession more significant, so starting a sorc and then adding wizard would be different than starting wizard and adding sorc. The amount of exp to gain true class defining level 35, 40, or 50 spells would be so astronomical as to really remove the whole not needing other classes thing.
I like the idea of cross-training in some other class skills, but not trainable skills. Having a rogue way past cap have the ability to assess weapons/armor for weighting/padding would be a nice perk and would not just make them “more powerful” since they are most likely strong enough in the hunting department.
By June next year, my bard will have not only mastered all of the various forms of Mana Control, he will have also mastered 101 ranks of Spiritual Lore, and 101 ranks of Sorcerous Lore, and 101 ranks of Mental Lore. I ask you, is it more of a leap of logic that he could pick up those spells from other professions after all of that, or that he simply can’t pick them up?
By the way, I’d be fine with making it a pre-requisite that a character be mastered in Spiritual Mana Control, and Spiritual Lore before they could learn Spiritual spells if they don’t normally have access to the Spiritual spheres. Thus, it would be easier for a Bard to learn Major Elemental, than it would for him to learn Minor Spiritual, etc. I’m ok with putting all kinds of sensible and logical pre-reqs on learning other spheres, etc. But it really doesn’t make logical sense that my bard couldn’t learn a Wizard spell after all of this training.
In this case, the challenges come down to power and identity. While JOEKRYSTEL and INIQUITY described multiclassing as a way to “diversify” or add “flex” to the individual character, others conversely see it as harming identity by merging professions.
The problem with “dual classing” in Gemstone, or training in spell circles not available to you, is that all professional identities (and game balance) go out the window. You could do something basic like “you can only train to 5th level spells in unknown circles”, but that’s sort of dumb, isn’t it? Don’t we like our professions to be unique?
As awesome as being able to train in other spell circles sounds, and as unopposed to the idea as I am, I can’t help but see the writing on the wall. Sounds like a long and round about way for every capped character to learn self-cast [Celerity].
Because that is what all of us non-wizards would do, amiright?
Allowing everyone the chance to ‘multi-class’ like this, really would destroy a lot of the unique differences between characters and skill trainings (something that, as I understand it, is already an issue post-cap).
Any sort of post-cap advancement I feel should further differentiate characters from ones that are also in their class. It should also offer the opportunity for unique, exciting, and noticeable benefits for achieving different Advancement goals.
I can’t realistically see the Major Elementals, or Major Spirituals for that matter, opening up. […] There might not be “balance issues” right at the moment. But we all know something has to give, eventually, and the top of the game must be expanded somehow. When/if that happens, this could easily get out of hand. Nevermind the fact that the 500s are still profession-defining, maybe more so than the Wizard circle. It’s simply not realistic.
Allowing post cap people a method of gaining perpetual spell knowledge enhancives for spells […] that otherwise appear on scrolls is, in fact, not a big deal. Especially if you pair the opportunity cost of doing so against other post cap rewards that would be available. If you particularly think a spell like [Celerity] could be game breaking, by all means exempt it. But in general, you’re not giving anyone a power they couldn’t otherwise easily get, you merely make it more convenient.
I think it would create too many issues at cap though as far as balancing goes. There are a lot of people with 2-4x capped xp these days. So it would be possible to have 2 post cap professions skill sets maxed out.
[…] who wants one of the things that makes their profession special to be someone else’s perk for reaching googobs of EXP? Just look at the list of suggestions we’ve seen here. Lore singing for non-bards? Self-knowledge spells? Added ranks of skills that aren’t even primary to that class?
The only way [post-cap] will work is if it’s super-cool RP stuff, or if it’s a mechanical benefit, it will have to be something that can’t be gained by ANY class but it useful to all.
While multiclassing certainly draws out some of the most vocal advocates and opponents, every post-cap proposal we’ve examined has been met with its own challenges and it seems clear that nothing will go over well with everybody.
Perhaps we should ask the question, then: is post-cap development even worth the difficulty to plan and implement? In response to that, the next section takes a break from proposed ideas and examines again the problems with post-cap characters’ status quo.
Part 1: What’s the Problem?
Part 2: Post-Cap Points
Part 3: Character Differentiation
Part 4: Scaling Up or Down
Part 5: Remorting
Part 6: Full or Partial Multiclassing
Part 7: Going Sideways
Part 8: Powers That Be
Part 9: Enhancive Convenience
Part 10: Non-Mechanical Perks
Part 11: The Salad Bowl of Commentary