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Finros Clarifies Lumni Contest Info

GM Finros clarifies information about the Lumnis Contest on the Forums:

http://bit.ly/2gk78nr

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: General Discussion about Gemstone IV

Date: 11/23/2016 09:56 AM CST
From: OMRII
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
The changes sound great. OCD is a terrible thing, any chance you could modify the exp command to show Long-Term Exp: prior to any converted TP message?

>exp
Level: 71 Deeds: 12
Experience: 4587277 Death’s Sting: None
Exp. until next: 24223 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 38880980
Physical TPs: 308 Mana: 239/239 max
(1166 Phy converted to Mnt)
Long-Term Exp: 0


Date: 11/23/2016 10:11 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I like the Long-Term Exp messaging at the very bottom so it’s easy to tell if you have any left or not. Please keep this as is.


Date: 11/23/2016 10:13 AM CST
From: RUBIPHYR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>I was excited about this too… but got (very mildly) less-so, when I realized that I will have actually fetch in <these other dozen characters> and hunt them for a while, in order to get some experience to put INTO the LTE pool.
(As well as the vouchers to actually do that step.)

I could be (again) misinterpreting, but in the original message, it specified field exp being absorbed offline. So I don’t think you need to put anything in LTE for this to happen, just fill their head and be done for the day. Unless you’re looking for that extra 250-pop at the end of each day, anyway.


Date: 11/23/2016 10:35 AM CST
From: OMRII
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Nevermind, I just used an ignore string. I was thinking it would leave me with a blank line there.


Date: 11/23/2016 10:51 AM CST
From: VICIMER
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>I personally don’t like the changes. Too convoluted and unnecessary. Wasn’t there something more important that could have been done?

I don’t understand this criticism. If you don’t want to use the long-term pool, you don’t have to. You don’t have to do anything different on your end. The offline absorption (which is awesome) and Lumnis changes are handled for you. What’s convoluted about it?


Date: 11/23/2016 10:59 AM CST
From: HATESHI
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
These changes are amazing. Thank you!!

– Overlord EK

>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.


Date: 11/23/2016 11:04 AM CST
From: MENOS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I like the changes overall. I think it strikes a good balance in promoting play on other characters while not greatly devaluing experience by making too much “more” of it. I am a little worried about the added complexity for new folks trying to understand the exp system.

I would love to see a default “on” option that moves exp into the long term pool if you have an unused reward and are gaining exp when fried. Something where after the kill/loot you see mind is full, moving 30 experience to the long term pool. I am not sure how it would jive with the current 250/instant move usage, but I think the effort would be worth it. Maybe it removes the boost at the first kill but keeps moving exp on kills until you hit 250 moved?

People who want to control when such things happen could turn off the flag/setting/whatever, but a new player wouldn’t have to think about that extra layer of trying to manage it.

Besides that, everything seems good to me so far.

Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.


Date: 11/23/2016 11:58 AM CST
From: KARDIOS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!

<< Putting this altogether in an example: If the total point pool set by the most recent contest is 18,000 points in total, then your allotted bonus for the 3x multiplier will apply to the first 6,000 points of base field experience that you absorb (netting you 12,000 bonus experience points), followed by a 2x multiplier on the next 6,000 base field experience (netting you a further 6,000 bonus experience points, making 18,000 Gift of Lumnis bonus points in total). >>

I think it will be a lot more than 18,000. I’m guessing more than 30,000.


Date: 11/23/2016 12:34 PM CST
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I am still on the fence about how I ‘feel’ about the changes. Don’t get me wrong – I appreciate the attempt. I’m just not sure how I feel personally about the value of this effort contrasted to other efforts I’d like to see completed. That said:

>>I think it will be a lot more than 18,000. I’m guessing more than 30,000.

I’m not sure that’s accurate. Since the focus seems to be on what the ‘bonus’ realization is, 30,000 as a comparitor would indicate a 10K hourly rate of absorption on the base experience. In other words, when not on Lumnis, the character would be earning 10K field to real experience conversion. That seems high.

About the highest I’ve seen on any of my characters is about 35K (out of what I consider an averaged max rate of 36K – see below). NB: This assumes perfect stats, best location for experience conversion, but does not account for individual means of accelerating – such as experience fusion sets. It does not include variance for non-node absorption, and therefore should be fairly representative of the ‘theoretical maximum’.

Assume reasonable max average as 40 experience an experience pulse (average one per minute)

40 * 60 minutes * 3 hours = 7,200 experience base
80 * 60 minutes * 3 hours = 14,400 experience during the 2x Lumnis period
120 * 60 minutes * 3 hours = 21,600 experience during the 3x Lumnis period
21,600 + 14,400 = 36,000 experience over 6 hour Lumnis period
7,200 experience base times 2 (3x and 2x cycles) = 14,400 base experience earned during Lumnis period
36,000 – 14,400 = 21,600 total bonus experience earned during Lumnis period.

Now, of course, this is maffs. . . someone may find a spot or two to correct.

Doug


Date: 11/23/2016 12:54 PM CST
From: KARDIOS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!

<< I’m not sure that’s accurate. Since the focus seems to be on what the ‘bonus’ realization is, 30,000 as a comparitor would indicate a 10K hourly rate of absorption on the base experience. In other words, when not on Lumnis, the character would be earning 10K field to real experience conversion. That seems high. >>

I may have misunderstood the contest. I thought it was how much experience was absorbed during a one week period computed without regard to any experience multipliers. But if it is 5 times the amount of experience absorbed in the first six hours of the contest week (total experience during Lumnis is 5 times base experience), then 36,000 might be right for a character with a large gem inventory who uses bounty waivers to get all gem tasks. That doesn’t seem like a very fun contest.


Date: 11/23/2016 01:24 PM CST
From: CHULAK
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Overall I like that work is being done to the game and think that the offline exp absorption is a great addition. The long-term experience addition seems good in some situations but also complex and not very easily explained. Moving the Lumnis and RPA system to a point-based approach is wonderful.

In regards to the contest, can we get some more information on how it will work? The way I’m reading it seems to be that it is based off who will get the highest amounts during a time-frame equivalent to their Lumnis of that week but starting 11/28 at 00:00. This would give a roughly 6 hour in-game time period for the character to absorb as much exp as possible. Others I have spoken with read it as exp absorbed throughout the entire week by that character. Some clarification would be wonderful here.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Speaking in Faendryl, Jahosk says, “You will now be known as Blade Durakar, the Palestra.”


Date: 11/23/2016 01:28 PM CST
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>>I may have misunderstood the contest.

And I might have, too, to be fair. I will say this, though – I don’t expect all of us to suddenly get an additional 2x bonus because of a week of power-hunting by the maximizer pros. I think the floor moved closer to the ceiling without the ceiling really being moved that much, and now the floor’s only significant influence is whether or not a character hunts fairly consistently over a 90 day window.

Which is, frankly, a part of why I’m not sure how I feel about this.

>>That doesn’t seem like a very fun contest.

‘Name in lights’ is about the only real benefit – and with the ability to exclude or opt out, even that might not be ‘accurate’. And over 50 top producers? We might realize less, rather than more. Especially numbers 1 through XX that represent the top. . . 25% or so?

Of course, we won’t know until we get at least 3 or 4 cycles under our belts – which means 9 months to a year. I’m sure it was modeled, and will be monitored, but the long horizon seems to indicate tweaks may be few and far between.

Doug


Date: 11/23/2016 02:54 PM CST
From: VEYTHORNE
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I’d like to request another addition to the EXPERIENCE command.

I’d like to see the amount of experience (in numerical form) I have in the “bucket” instead of just seeing becoming numbed, fried, etc.

Level: 35 Deeds: 39
Experience: 1554161 Death’s Sting: None
Exp. until next: 54339 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 2154674
Physical TPs: 549 Mana: 12/201 max
(458 Phy converted to Mnt)
Long-Term Exp: 0
* Experience Banked: 1024/900 *

Your mind is completely saturated. It is imperative that you rest immediately!


Date: 11/23/2016 03:04 PM CST
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Regarding the complexity of long-term experience, it need not be considered particularly complex. The basics of it are “you can store some field exp away to slowly absorb later”. If, at any time, you have a full head of exp but would like to keep hunting to finish a bounty, or for more loot, or because your group partner is not yet fried, or perhaps because an invasion is ongoing and you think you might die and lose all your field exp anyway, then you can tuck some field exp away and keep going without waste. There are no caps on storing the boosts or on the size of your long-term exp pool, so you can save as many long-term exp boosts for as long as you want and use them all at once for a marathon hunting session, or simply use them as you get them. Either way, there are no complex hoops you need to jump through to get the maximum bonus from these boosts.

This, combined with the Lumnis changes and offline exp, are intended to actually reduce complexity in the long-run, as we have gotten quite a few complaints that people feel the need to grind out exp on strict time-table or else they feel like they are “wasting” their various exp modifiers. These changes are focused on reducing that stress and to allow players to play as they’d prefer to, not how the experience system used to push them towards. While this may seem complicated on the surface, its actually removing a load off many players’ shoulders by moving the maximization calculations onto an automated system that takes care of it for you.

Regarding the contest, for clarification, it will be based upon tracking only bonus Lumnis experience that players earn during the contest period. That means only the extra experience added via the Gift of Lumnis multiplier counts toward the contest, which excludes the base experience amount, RP award modifers, Login Award modifiers, instant absorption, Death Sting inefficiency, and so on.

We have been tracking exp numbers in detail since August of 2015, so we have a fairly broad view of what people have been earning on their own even without a contest to motivate them. The mathematical maximum Lumnis bonus exp that one can earn is around 26,460(assuming a burghal gnome with maxed logic, max logic enhancers, always absorbing their maximum chunk on a supernode). We have never observed that occur in the last year. In fact, we have not seen anyone surpass 22,000 in that time period. Most weeks, the top earner earns slightly more than 20k. When motivated by a contest, we believe that there is a good chance that the average of the top 50 will, in fact, beat the top 1 person for almost any given prior week (the gap between the top 50 and the top person is not particularly large).

The contest should actually reduce the workload:exp ratio for powerhunters too, since they will need only focus on maximizing their Lumnis output during one week every 3 months, and then be able to reap the same rewards without having to put forth the same effort for the remaining ~11 weeks. We did think about using only one contest result to permanently fix or inform the size of the pool, but we also think that a recurring contest actually might be a source of fun and motivation to play for a good number of players, but if that turns out to not be the case, we will certainly be willing to review the frequency of the contest once we see the end results.

Coase


Date: 11/23/2016 03:41 PM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>We have never observed that occur in the last year. In fact, we have not seen anyone surpass 22,000 in that time period.

I would guess this is because people have been demotivated to hunt in the last year, but these changes certainly help to turn that around. I agree it helps everyone maximize without having to deviate from their normal play style much. I’m really looking forward to the point-based change.

Thanks again for all of the work that went into this!


Date: 11/23/2016 03:50 PM CST
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
<>I personally don’t like the changes. Too convoluted and unnecessary. Wasn’t there something more important that could have been done?>

<I don’t understand this criticism. If you don’t want to use the long-term pool, you don’t have to. You don’t have to do anything different on your end. The offline absorption (which is awesome) and Lumnis changes are handled for you. What’s convoluted about it?>

I can understand it perfectly. The new EXP system took nine paragraphs to explain in the announcement and is replacing one that could have been explained in nine sentences or less. I know I was thinking “what the heck…” myself.

I think it would have been easier for a lot of people to take in if it had been released over a few days or a couple weeks rather then all at once. I know if the offline had been released one day, then the long term a couple days later, then the lumnis changes/contest at the beginning of the next week, it would have been a lot less of a shock to my system.

Starchitin (trying to reserve judgement until I’ve had a bit of experience with it)

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.


Date: 11/23/2016 03:55 PM CST
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Thanks, Coase. A couple of quick but very low priority questions if you have a moment.

>>26,460(assuming a burghal gnome with maxed logic, max logic enhancers, always absorbing their maximum chunk on a supernode).

I’m struggling with the race part of this. No race gets any racial benefit to experience absorption, it’s all based off of logic bonus. True, Burghal gnomes get there faster / easier – but a max of 40 to bonus is a max of 40 to bonus and not tied to race. Did I miss something?

>>we believe that there is a good chance that the average of the top 50 will, in fact, beat the top 1 person for almost any given prior week (the gap between the top 50 and the top person is not particularly large).

I’ll be the first to admit maffs isn’t my especiality. But – even if every single person in the 50 got exactly the same score, that would mean the average would be the same score (not beating) the top scoring individual. So I’m struggling with understanding the math case where an average across any population, can actually exceed the value of the highest member of that population. Is there something going on besides ‘average’?

Doug


Date: 11/23/2016 04:10 PM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>No race gets any racial benefit to experience absorption, it’s all based off of logic bonus. True, Burghal gnomes get there faster / easier – but a max of 40 to bonus is a max of 40 to bonus and not tied to race. Did I miss something?

Burghal gnomes have the highest logic bonus of any race, so with a +5 bonus difference, they get +1 experience per pulse on node. Experience absorption is based off total logic bonus, so a max of 40 to bonus is not a max of 40 to bonus when different races have different total maximum bonuses.


Date: 11/23/2016 04:11 PM CST
From: CHULAK
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>But – even if every single person in the 50 got exactly the same score, that would mean the average would be the same score (not beating) the top scoring individual. So I’m struggling with understanding the math case where an average across any population, can actually exceed the value of the highest member of that population. Is there something going on besides ‘average’?

It sounded like he meant that the average of the top 50 in the contest would beat the top 1 from any of the weeks they’ve been tracking in the past year.

Speaking in Faendryl, Jahosk says, “You will now be known as Blade Durakar, the Palestra.”


Date: 11/23/2016 04:15 PM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Can I get an answer to this, please: Does the offline absorption occur every X pulses or only if you’re logged out for a full 10 minutes?

Also, for contest clarification, does it mean that one week out of every 3 months will return to pulse-based experience absorption for the purposes of having a contest? Meanwhile, until the point-based absorption rolls in, are Lumnis pulses being wasted if one logs out with Lumnis active and field experience in mind, or is Lumnis not being applied to current offline absorption amounts?


Date: 11/23/2016 04:30 PM CST
From: RATHBONER
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>Either way, there are no complex hoops you need to jump through to get the maximum bonus from these boosts.

I see that for Lumnis but long term exp not only looks complex to maximise, it looks like miscalculating can actually leave you worse off than if you didn’t expend the boost at all.

I think the contest will be fun to see what happens when applying certain house rules, but getting a top score is something I’d only seriously consider in Shattered. I might manage an occasional hour or two as a burghal cleric demanding gems and bodies in TSC if people wanted Lumnis to love them for the next 3 months but not the 6 in a row starting at 5 a.m. which is what going for the maximum would require me to do.


Date: 11/23/2016 04:46 PM CST
From: RATHBONER
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>I’m struggling with the race part of this. No race gets any racial benefit to experience absorption, it’s all based off of logic bonus. True, Burghal gnomes get there faster / easier – but a max of 40 to bonus is a max of 40 to bonus and not tied to race. Did I miss something?

A burghal with the maximally enhanced LOG stat of 140 has a LOG bonus of 55, while the best bonus another race can get with the same logic stat of 140 is 50.


Date: 11/23/2016 04:55 PM CST
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Ahh, yep – I see. The stat max is 140 – but the base modifier does still count. Thanks, Fleurs, and Rath!

Doug


Date: 11/23/2016 04:58 PM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
There’s still some bug where I’m absorbing significantly more than 15 exp per offline 10 minutes on Lumnis, even though this is nice. I logged off for 15 minutes while saturated on a fresh Lumnis and absorbed the 250 LTE instantly plus 174 more in my field experience bucket.


Date: 11/24/2016 12:54 AM CST
From: GS4-FINROS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I’ll add some additional clarification on the Lumnis contest.

As originally stated by Coase, the contest runs for a one-week period every 90 days. That timing is chosen specifically to stagger the contest periods rather than (for example) holding them during the first week of each quarter, which could systematically exclude some players based on their real-life availability.

During each contest period, a character’s experience gain is tracked over a six hour period that corresponds to the Lumnis system as it exists today. That is, six hours of experience-earning pulses are tracked with the first 3 hours counting at 3x gain, and the second 3 hours counting at 2x gain. The recording period starts whenever your Lumnis cycle is scheduled to regularly start, and your “entry” is recorded when the six hour period ends. There is special messaging to indicate when your contest tracking period begins, and messaging in the EXP verb to indicate that it is ongoing. The scheduled start for the next contest period can be found in the LUMNIS verb.

Note that your actual experience gain, even during the contest period, will still be based on the point-based Lumnis system. Players who don’t care about the contest period won’t have the race the six-hour clock to gain full Lumnis benefits even during contest weeks.

Based on current data, the average amount of Lumnis experience from the top-50 in Prime is between 18k and 19k on any given week; the number one earner is usually in the 20k range, and it usually gets down to the 18-19k range by the number five earner (and almost always by the number ten earner). With known contest periods, I would expect that average to rise somewhat. Just as an interesting data point, the mean Lumnis experience earned across all experience-earning characters is in the ~9k range, and the median is in the ~10k range, per week. Again, these numbers are Lumnis experience only and don’t include the base experience amount, or any other bonus or penalty experience. As others have noted, 18k Lumnis experience would be earned from 12k regular experience, for a total gain of 30k experience, plus bonuses or penalties from a variety of other systems.

Contest “entries” are only accepted from characters that actually have a Lumnis period that week. I’ve seen some comments about creating hordes of scripting F2P characters to try and game the system; it won’t work unless you’re also purchasing Lumnis passes, so anyone thinking along those lines, please refrain and save both yourself and us from the annoyance.

I might also add that precise tracking is inherent in the system, so if we do suddenly see a bunch of throwaway maxed-logic-enhancive burghal gnomes sitting on supernodes and calibrated to earn max experience every pulse, we’ll likely impose additional restrictions on eligibility. Try to push the limits on experience gain with an established character and a support structure, and we’ll cheer you on for being creative. Create throwaway characters with the express purpose of trying to boost the average, and you’ll just end up making it more irritating for everybody else as we impose additional restrictions.

And as a brief non-contest note, any character currently on their Lumnis boost at the time of the switchover from time-based to point-based will complete their current Lumnis cycle as time-based. The first Lumnis cycle that starts after the switchover, and all subsequent ones, will be point-based.


Date: 11/24/2016 02:12 AM CST
From: BNHRB4
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I used 3 of the Long term exp boosts, but it only put a total of 500 xp into my pool.

Long-Term Exp: 500

Russ/Kiel


Date: 11/24/2016 04:07 AM CST
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>It looks like the last exp pulse is able to take out more exp from the pool than it has. I think I had 1 point left in the pool and absorbed approximately 40 exp. It pulled out 4 and left me with a -3 available.

This should be fixed.

>Does the offline absorption occur every X pulses or only if you’re logged out for a full 10 minutes?

A full 10 minutes.

>I see that for Lumnis but long term exp not only looks complex to maximise, it looks like miscalculating can actually leave you worse off than if you didn’t expend the boost at all.

The calculations involved are not complex unless you’re already timing your hunting schedule down to the minute. For general hunting, unless you expend the boost and then are not able to refill your head, you should be able come out ahead with not too much difficulty.

>There’s still some bug where I’m absorbing significantly more than 15 exp per offline 10 minutes on Lumnis, even though this is nice. I logged off for 15 minutes while saturated on a fresh Lumnis and absorbed the 250 LTE instantly plus 174 more in my field experience bucket.

This should be fixed. If you encountered this, you may get one more free pulse and then you’ll be back on the intended pulse schedule.

>I used 3 of the Long term exp boosts, but it only put a total of 500 xp into my pool.

This was related to the bug immediately above. You got an unintended free pulse that absorbed 250 outside the intended schedule.

Coase


Date: 11/24/2016 09:03 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Thanks for the contest clarification. My only concern is that under the actual point-based system, many Lumnis pulses might drain away in real time if a character starts their scheduled Lumnis period with field experience in mind while offline.

Also, if the top-50 is already that low, is there really much point to actually trying if only a few people pushing hard are unlikely to be able to bring up the entire average? 40 characters doing their usual would result in the efforts of the top few not moving the needle much, if at all. Is the contest tracking per account or per character?

Based on the current data, the average is at least 20-25% under what I usually do if I try. Of course, I haven’t actually tried in over a year.


Date: 11/24/2016 09:11 AM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
You out-perform the average, but that just means you’re in the higher range. Even you will benefit from the efforts of the very highest tier, because they will tend to make the pool calculation that little bit larger than it already is.


Date: 11/24/2016 10:01 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
No, it won’t, and honestly there’s no point in burning enhancives to push for it if everyone else is going to drag it down.


Date: 11/24/2016 10:17 AM CST
From: KITHUS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
No, it won’t, and honestly there’s no point in burning enhancives to push for it if everyone else is going to drag it down.

I would think that the expectation is for, once every 3 months, the top earners to really push their limits to raise the pool. Then for the next 12 cycles you can earn that max amount without the logic enhancives, carefully timed puleses, etc. If you are consistently in the top 20 right now you might see a small loss in overall experience gain from Lumnis. The trade off is that you will not have to work nearly as hard on non-contest weeks to reach what would normally have you busting your balls.

I do have faith that, if the contest weeks produce bad results, the staff will re-evaluate the contests. Be it through reducing the total top end participants counted towards the average or by going away from the contests entirely. It seems that the point here is to raise the average Lumnis gain overall by reducing the complexity of the system most of the time. I’d like to think I will be one of the 5 people in Plat setting our average and will likely lose out by a small bit overall. However, that will help the rest of the community earn more from Lumnis and make my normal Lumnis earning less of a chore so I’m all for it.

Burn your enhancives, bust your butt for that one week and get into that top 50 list. Show the community how great you are at pulling Lumnis XP and make it better for everyone. After your comments above I expect you to be in the top 10 though. Otherwise you are one of the people dragging the average down.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Keith is correct

Wyrom, APM

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Help%20for%20Players/Policy%20Discussions/view/246


Date: 11/24/2016 10:21 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
If there are 10 top earners and 40 average, the entire pool would only be raised by 1k. It’s not even worth the bother and efforts of people who min-max to push for the maximum while burning enhancives if the net result is basically no movement. It’s different in Plat where one person can make a big difference in a top 5 average. 50 is simply too many.

And no, I don’t have to burn my enhancives and rearrange my schedule to make a push so people who are just average get a marginal gain anyway, since we’ll all just be average in the end. The numbers given for Prime are too varied to make any difference if we’re taking 50 into account, so the Prime system is flawed based on historical data. Finros’s data contradicts what Coase said, which was there wasn’t much difference between #1 and #10. I consider a 25% variance very significant.


Date: 11/24/2016 10:35 AM CST
From: KITHUS
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Wouldn’t it be better to hedge your bets and do your best, at least for the first contest? I mean let’s get one contest of real numbers and then decide from there what our best option is.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Keith is correct

Wyrom, APM

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Help%20for%20Players/Policy%20Discussions/view/246


Date: 11/24/2016 10:49 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I’ll do what I can, but I don’t expect much. Finros’s data doesn’t support the premise that more than even 5-10 Prime players regularly use their logic enhancives, and I wouldn’t expect everyone to have a full set. Also, it’s an inconvenient week to be doing something like this being just around the holidays and the week before the auction when many people are loot hunting, not maximizing Lumnis. I’m just saying I don’t expect 5 or even 10 people pushing heavily to move the needle at all given the data has shown most of the top 50 doesn’t use logic enhancives, nor is everyone capped with maximized stats.

Finally, the change to a point-based system will make it much more difficult to even hit the theoretical maximums, as before, the min-maxers logged off when not immediately able to complete and turn in a bounty to save on the exp pulse drain. Now, with offline absorption reducing the pool regardless, it’s going to take that many more pulses to get back to maximum experience per pulse, so the overall total is just going to take a hit, especially if this methodology is used beyond just one contest when everything has migrated to point-based. Asking people to do a solid 6 hours of mim-maxed lumnis is a very tall order, where before one could have spread it over a week but just logged off to save on non-maximized pulses.


Date: 11/24/2016 11:01 AM CST
From: RAGGLER
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Something is definitely still wrong with the system. I’m not on lumnis, and last night around 2am I definitely went to bed with 300ish long term exp only to wake up this morning with zero long term exp and a message of gaining TPs, suggesting that I was digesting my long term exp while not logged in. It was also well past midnight, so I couldn’t have digested the daily 250 at midnight.

Isle Snack Muncher


Date: 11/24/2016 11:04 AM CST
From: SJOSEPH
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
The boost is only being granted from lootable monsters, Wind Wraiths that leave their treasure without the need to be looted aren’t granting the pass.


Date: 11/24/2016 11:05 AM CST
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
I’m surprised no one’s brought up when the contest happens to fall on EG, RtCF, Spitfire, etc…

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.


Date: 11/24/2016 11:18 AM CST
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>>I’m surprised no one’s brought up when the contest happens to fall on EG, RtCF, Spitfire, etc…

I briefly thought about it – but then decided not to pursue. I’m fairly confident in one week out of 13 it can be properly accounted for.

I hadn’t really considered Keith’s point, though. More fodder for consideration.

I think the biggest challenge I see to this is: The top producers aren’t top producers for altruistic reasons. And so, those top producers aren’t likely to be moved by most of the dialog here.

How that challenge becomes addressed, I’m not sure – I see some folks, including an elder sorcerer I greatly respect, agitating for something beyond recognition to move the needle. It’s a thought – flip the altruism to something that answers the narcissism bell. That comes with its own basket of imponderables, though.

Doug


Date: 11/24/2016 11:21 AM CST
From: CAVEMANIAC
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
Might just be Wind Wraiths that are not working properly because elementals in The Confluence definitely grant this boost (all others) without being looted


Date: 11/24/2016 11:33 AM CST
From: LADYFLEUR
Subj: Re: Updates to the Experience System!
>I think the biggest challenge I see to this is: The top producers aren’t top producers for altruistic reasons.

This isn’t the biggest challenge. The point is that the average isn’t going to change from the current average without a significant number of people using maximum logic enhancives. As the data from historical top 50 has shown, few people have this. If it’s not going to make any difference anyway, the top producers have little incentive to rearrange their schedules to try to push for their usual maximum under the new system, since even 10 top producers won’t materially change the top 50 average if everyone else does their usual without maximum enhancives. This isn’t a criticism, it’s simply fact that I don’t think most people have the maximum enhancives on all the time and are capped.

It’s why using top 50 for a contest doesn’t make much sense, since there won’t be any material impact from people min-maxing or not, so we’ll just likely all accept that the average has gone down to the historical. Which is what it is, but it doesn’t make sense for the pretense of having a contest if one or ten people can’t move the needle for everyone. If it was top 10, I’d be much more likely and willing to go all out.

Currently, people who use +40 logic enhancives all the time on gift do so for their own benefits of getting an extra 5k+ exp per gift week. That’s worth it to me. It’s not worth all the hassle and jumping through hoops to burn the same plus all the extra effort involved in doing a consecutive 6 hour min-max period, for a 1k or less gain, while having to use bounty boosts, etc because one can no longer log offline to reduce experience pool drain.

 

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